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minxyHeh: T-Rex On Hidden Talents.
First time, standing apart. Walking the line of sex buddies and something more emotional, with an exit clause. Plus points for sneaky and effective use of tense changes: Something Guys Do from![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
princessofg, who continues to provide wonderfully fresh, new Jack/Daniel. Hard R. S4ish.
From the Teyla ficathon, a darker femmeslash: strong women, surviving and finding that gives them more in common than they have with anyone else. Do No Harm, Teyla/Cadman, R, fromalizarin_nyc.
kellifer_fic's entertaining drinking fic: It's the Firewater That Gets You. I love Ronon. I'm just saying. John & Rodney, G rated, humor.
Long, plotty Sam & Jack with a great premise: What if, one day, Sam just lost it and snapped and went a bit AWOL. Frankly, I'm stunned it hasn't happened, but it was with great foresight that Jojo had Maybourne approach her with a proposal in a story that played right into Season 5's Desperate Measures. It also does that thing where characters are allowed to have faults, and make mistakes, and accept consequences, and drive their friends to the edge. Daniel and Teal'c exist in this very nicely and importantly and as players in relationships that stand on their own and are as important as the great unspoken thing between Sam and Jack. And when they're pushed to the edge, you do find out exactly what it would take to get them to talk. Crisis, by Jojo, PG-13.
There was one about Rodney being insomniac. In fact, I think I read a DVD commentary on that one. Seems appropriate. I'll just go look for it for a moment... Oh, here is is: Solutions byteaphile, with DVD commentary here. John/Rodney, first time, cliche/kink challenge. NC-17.
And now, some brief meta, for I have not been sleeping well do to impending dissertation defense. Sure, it's in over a month, but there are deadlines and administration and there's work to do and advisors to badger and inconsistant people who must come through for me though there really isn't much precident... and I am sliiiiightly insomniac. But I'm working on it.
As per discussion withprincessofg, using a hard POV in a fic is something that's a choice of the author, but is it a strength of fanfiction that T.V. or performances can't do as well? It seems to me that the camera's eye on screen is by default an omniscient POV, although I remember in bits of Ascension where the camera quite deliberately took on the POV of a floaty alien Orlin. In writing fanfic, I remember getting the first piece of beta advice alerting me to some alarming head hopping, and while omniscient POV in fic doesn't put me off, it's something I don't do well and try to deliberately avoid in my own writing.
There is a interesting side effect of hard character POV, though, and that's that if your character is unreliable or doesn't notice something or isn't there, you really can't get that information to the reader without telling your character or being very sneaky. T.V., on the other hand, can switch A to B storylines quite easily, and has been known to even jump clean away from our heroes and show wacky stuff like the badguys hanging out together, which is probably a more efficient way of doing things, but automatically filters the reactions through the audiences opinions rather than a characters opinions. I really like the intimacy of a hard POV, though, it's a direct and immediate way to access emotions and show how they're thinking by what they're registering. It's the anticipation of a first time when you really don't know how the other character is going to react, vs a foregone conclusion. Not that that is the only kind of tension, but it's an interesting kind.
I do suppose the camerawork itself is a (literal, har,) lens into the onscreen scene, and a director might suggest more intimacy with a two shot or aggression with a low angle, but even then, it's the directors POV you're getting.
Has Stargate ever followed just one character's POV in a hard way? If a hero is on his own, I suppose. Say, Daniel in The Summit/whateverthesecondepwascalled, but in a snap, they'll pull back to the Tok'ra planet and show stuff Daniel knows nothing about, and not particularly commit to Teal'c or Sam or Jack's POV there. In Alias early seasons, there was a significant commitment to Sydney's POV, and she carried you into and out of every scene, but apparently it almost flattened Jennifer Garner into exhaustion, so by S3 they'd introduced the idea of scenes that don't include Sydney, and there was much grumbling amongst the fans.
Anyway, insomniac inability to remember the scathing conclusion I was going to draw here, so tell me moments in fanfic where you thought a character's POV really changed the way the story unfolded (I really enjoyed writing Daniel as an unreliable narrator in Like No One is Watching, for example), or instances where omniscient POV made it a better action fic or something (do you find the omniscient POV better lends itself to fanfic that feels like an episode? That might have been my whiz-bang conclusion.) Any times when you remember canon committing to a hard character POV?
Maybe Beneath the Surface? Because we do get reintroduced to the characters, and don't follow Daniel until he's introduced to us through Jack...
Or the Changeling, which might be the best example, since Teal'c is effectively in a series of AUs and dreamscapes, so he more than many other episodes, is the standout hero of his dreams, and his is the only POV that matters. It isn't until he is discovered and at least partially stabilized at the SGC that the audience hears any other opinions other than Teal'c's, and even then, he's still in the room.
But then, Teal'c stories don't often overlap well with the other heroes, since he is a bit removed.
Thoughts? Ideas? Coherent arguments? Bring it.
OMG, I need to sleep. How do people handle this for a lifetime? I've only missed out on less than my normal 8 hours for a couple of nights in a row and I'm loopy. Of course, I'm not sleeping due to panic, so that could be causing the loopiness.
First time, standing apart. Walking the line of sex buddies and something more emotional, with an exit clause. Plus points for sneaky and effective use of tense changes: Something Guys Do from
princessofg, who continues to provide wonderfully fresh, new Jack/Daniel. Hard R. S4ish.From the Teyla ficathon, a darker femmeslash: strong women, surviving and finding that gives them more in common than they have with anyone else. Do No Harm, Teyla/Cadman, R, from
alizarin_nyc.kellifer_fic's entertaining drinking fic: It's the Firewater That Gets You. I love Ronon. I'm just saying. John & Rodney, G rated, humor.Long, plotty Sam & Jack with a great premise: What if, one day, Sam just lost it and snapped and went a bit AWOL. Frankly, I'm stunned it hasn't happened, but it was with great foresight that Jojo had Maybourne approach her with a proposal in a story that played right into Season 5's Desperate Measures. It also does that thing where characters are allowed to have faults, and make mistakes, and accept consequences, and drive their friends to the edge. Daniel and Teal'c exist in this very nicely and importantly and as players in relationships that stand on their own and are as important as the great unspoken thing between Sam and Jack. And when they're pushed to the edge, you do find out exactly what it would take to get them to talk. Crisis, by Jojo, PG-13.
There was one about Rodney being insomniac. In fact, I think I read a DVD commentary on that one. Seems appropriate. I'll just go look for it for a moment... Oh, here is is: Solutions by
teaphile, with DVD commentary here. John/Rodney, first time, cliche/kink challenge. NC-17.And now, some brief meta, for I have not been sleeping well do to impending dissertation defense. Sure, it's in over a month, but there are deadlines and administration and there's work to do and advisors to badger and inconsistant people who must come through for me though there really isn't much precident... and I am sliiiiightly insomniac. But I'm working on it.
As per discussion with
princessofg, using a hard POV in a fic is something that's a choice of the author, but is it a strength of fanfiction that T.V. or performances can't do as well? It seems to me that the camera's eye on screen is by default an omniscient POV, although I remember in bits of Ascension where the camera quite deliberately took on the POV of a floaty alien Orlin. In writing fanfic, I remember getting the first piece of beta advice alerting me to some alarming head hopping, and while omniscient POV in fic doesn't put me off, it's something I don't do well and try to deliberately avoid in my own writing.There is a interesting side effect of hard character POV, though, and that's that if your character is unreliable or doesn't notice something or isn't there, you really can't get that information to the reader without telling your character or being very sneaky. T.V., on the other hand, can switch A to B storylines quite easily, and has been known to even jump clean away from our heroes and show wacky stuff like the badguys hanging out together, which is probably a more efficient way of doing things, but automatically filters the reactions through the audiences opinions rather than a characters opinions. I really like the intimacy of a hard POV, though, it's a direct and immediate way to access emotions and show how they're thinking by what they're registering. It's the anticipation of a first time when you really don't know how the other character is going to react, vs a foregone conclusion. Not that that is the only kind of tension, but it's an interesting kind.
I do suppose the camerawork itself is a (literal, har,) lens into the onscreen scene, and a director might suggest more intimacy with a two shot or aggression with a low angle, but even then, it's the directors POV you're getting.
Has Stargate ever followed just one character's POV in a hard way? If a hero is on his own, I suppose. Say, Daniel in The Summit/whateverthesecondepwascalled, but in a snap, they'll pull back to the Tok'ra planet and show stuff Daniel knows nothing about, and not particularly commit to Teal'c or Sam or Jack's POV there. In Alias early seasons, there was a significant commitment to Sydney's POV, and she carried you into and out of every scene, but apparently it almost flattened Jennifer Garner into exhaustion, so by S3 they'd introduced the idea of scenes that don't include Sydney, and there was much grumbling amongst the fans.
Anyway, insomniac inability to remember the scathing conclusion I was going to draw here, so tell me moments in fanfic where you thought a character's POV really changed the way the story unfolded (I really enjoyed writing Daniel as an unreliable narrator in Like No One is Watching, for example), or instances where omniscient POV made it a better action fic or something (do you find the omniscient POV better lends itself to fanfic that feels like an episode? That might have been my whiz-bang conclusion.) Any times when you remember canon committing to a hard character POV?
Maybe Beneath the Surface? Because we do get reintroduced to the characters, and don't follow Daniel until he's introduced to us through Jack...
Or the Changeling, which might be the best example, since Teal'c is effectively in a series of AUs and dreamscapes, so he more than many other episodes, is the standout hero of his dreams, and his is the only POV that matters. It isn't until he is discovered and at least partially stabilized at the SGC that the audience hears any other opinions other than Teal'c's, and even then, he's still in the room.
But then, Teal'c stories don't often overlap well with the other heroes, since he is a bit removed.
Thoughts? Ideas? Coherent arguments? Bring it.
OMG, I need to sleep. How do people handle this for a lifetime? I've only missed out on less than my normal 8 hours for a couple of nights in a row and I'm loopy. Of course, I'm not sleeping due to panic, so that could be causing the loopiness.
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no subject
Date: 2006-07-16 04:58 am (UTC)I've written in first, second and omniscient POV and can tell you I HATE First. IMHO, that smacks of Mary-sueism no matter the character or fandom--especially if it's pr0n. (Thus, only one of those by me) Most of mine have been omni because I *AM* an avid book reader and that POV seems to be the most acceptable and easily read.
HOWEVER, you miss out on character's feelings or observations (unless you make it dialogue or italicize to indictate thought--which ALSO bothers me, even if I have done it!). That kind of detail is best brought out in the "hard POV" as you call it (i've always thought of that as 2nd but whatever---I probably have it all wrong).
UNFORTUNATELY, some of us can't do "in character" this way for a longer piece. It is exhausting. And sometimes you are tempted to write/say/do something OUT of character--and I don't like that either.
And one more thing, which will make me sound like a snob and/or asskisser: Sometimes the people that read your work won't pick up on the details and such in a "hard" POV. And it's kind of frustrating because it makes you wonder if you missed the boat or if your readers are just idiots. *ack--again with the snobbery* Some fandoms/pairings *cough*Rayne*cough* don't seem to pick up on the subtlety--and since it's the most reviled Firefly pairing and never read by the "readers that count" I've given up on trying to do that with them.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-17 09:18 pm (UTC)First, second, omniscient... man, I know it can be done well, I know it can, and it can be done to great effect too, but tense is a kind of tool that you really need to be good at before you start messing with it. Me? I'm not there. If I ever have used or done it well, it was an accident.
I don't like the notion, though, that fanfiction has to be written in a particular way or for a particular audience or otherwise be subject to wierd external rules. Sometimes I express opinions and am crazy alarmed when people take them as a judgement larger than just a personal opinion, like some kind of final word on what is worthy. I mean, if you are hitting a kink for people, and filling a niche no one else is, who is to say that is better or more worthy than the most lauded, heralded, recc'd, gen, novel-length story? I love the idea that you're writing for yourself first and foremost, and that you're reading my lovely flist and getting ideas on how to procede. I love the idea that fandom has a place for everyone.
I also have burned the DVD and am heading to the post office this afternoon. Christmas address is still accurate, right?
no subject
Date: 2006-07-17 09:56 pm (UTC)TENSE! Don't get me started on tense. I have ginormous problems with that in my own work and sometimes wonder if I should just say "F*ckitall" and write in the present. After all, you can't really accidentally drop in, or be forced to use, past participle if you write in the present.
But I can't bring myself to do it. Because I'd rather be mediocre writing in past tense than really good at writing in present. *ack!!!* I don't mean to sound like Mrs. Judgy again, but something about present doesn't sit well with me and seems less...educated? Refined? Literary? Hell I don't know what it is I am trying to say except that SOME THINGS written in present tense sound like a High School drop out wrote it.
I am going to hell for being a snob, aren't I?
I know there is work written in present that IS PHENOMENAL and should grace the shelves of Barnes and Noble as far as I am concerned, but when present is done badly, it makes the whole thing suck and makes me want to run away screaming when I open a fic and read that so and so "thinks this might be a bad idea" or somesuch because OMG!PRESENTTENSE!NOOOOOOOOO!
And yes, addy is the same.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!