minxy | PTSD Aftermath Fic

There are many reasons I do not like non-con fics. First, because I do not find non-con to be a good thing or something I wish to live unless it's played off very well and for some reason of strong import to the rest of the fic, and second, because it's often not respected in the aftermath the way it ought to be. Non-con, or more specifically rape, I guess, is not something you get over when your loving and adoring partner makes love to you next. No. It is traumatic. TRAUMATIC, and as such, requires great, great respect. So there are few fics I think handle this well, but when they get it right, the use of that kind of trauma as darkside and part of an arc can be very, very effective.

To my mind, the best handling of this deals with the aftermath of trauma. Post traumatic stress disorder, psychology, therapy, healing and trust restored. The victim and the people around him or her, how they react. Those expected to help and those who's assistance is unlooked for. Epiphanies great and small. Weakness and strength respected.

The fic I'm going to rec now does not explicitly describe the sexual violence, but it does treat the aftereffects nicely. Let us say the hurt happens off camera, the comfort + healing is the point.

Place Your Hand, by

mmmchelle. SGA, John/Rodney. Beautiful and respectful way back together.

Under a Broken Moon by

raqs. Yes, I rec this all the time (I am not rational about this story). No, not everyone is recovering from sexual violence, but it is one of the most comprehensive fics dealing with PTSD that I've ever read. You might check out her commentary (part I, II, III, IV) on this as well. It's an SG-1/SGA crossover in the Pegasus B universe. Stands on it's own, though.

Cartography by Touch by

rageprufrock. This is elegantly done. It's just been posted, and is my motivation for finally getting around to pointing to Place Your Hand as well. SGA, John and Rodney. It broke me and put me back together.

I should add that I'm more open to fic like this in 'Lantis than I am in SG-1. The reason for this is two-fold: first, there is plausible history of Non-con for either Jack or Daniel if an author chooses to go there. Both of those guys were sort of traumatized when they met, and I believe they have had a lot of time to deal with the hard things they've lived through, so the immediacy of the pain is different, and much more complex and difficult in that situation. Also? There really isn't a psychologist in SG-1 that we have a well drawn character for. 'Lantis has the rather wonderful Kate Heightmeyer, whom people respect before, during and after situations where they might be less interested in laying bare their soul. The fallback in SG-1 is Dr. Warner, whom all the characters seem to default resent. And seriously, you can't help people against their will.

That said?

tafkarfanfic's Diving to Drown is SG-1, it's a really incredible AU, so relevant to the SG-1 'verse, so relevant to Daniel and so durned disturbing in it's haunting upsettingness. That's not a word, but how do you describe Diving to Drown? I mean, really. Someone had to acknowledge the possibility.

ETA: cool discussion below leads me to add that for an example of non-con that is not rape, but has a very nice treatment of the reprocussions of doing something without the other person's consent, I recommend the very fine fic Moka by

saffronhouse = Martha. This is a beautiful piece that actually deals with the aggressor's guilt, and brings up thinky thoughts about the difference between something bad happening in general versus something bad happening and someone you trust being on the other side of that.

ETA2: further interesting discussion leads to recs in the comments from alert readers in the realm of AMTDI fic as non-con of a sort and several recs for SG-1 rape or non-con fic.

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From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_minxy_/

I think there is a subtle distiction, yeah, but I object to not-strictly-consensual situations as well and it's rare that it matters to me a whole lot. Semantics, I guess. I guess I would say that Place Your Hand and Cartography By Touch are aftereffects of rape. Under A Broken Moon is a slightly more ambiguous situation, but I would say that is a post-rape effect too.

It's odd that the fics I am willing to rec deal with rape trauma, but I want it to have the import to the character. I agree there's a whole lot of difference between sex where one partner enjoys it more than the other and possibly would prefer not to be doing it right then, and rape. Big difference. Not sure where exactly the line is between them, though.

I'm okay with BDSM with Jack and Daniel. Not because of the torture thing, but for the power play of it and the trust involved.

From:

muck-a-luck.livejournal.com

I think the key is the fantasy component of most of these stories.

What it boils down to for me is that non-con is one of two types of situations. A) the non-con party would consent, but is not given an opportunity. This is hardly non-con at all, really. Or b) the non-con party might have consented, but hasn't quite gotten there yet emotionally, and in the end is happily and pleasantly surprised by their own positive response to the experience. In case b, which is a lot closer to rape, the other partner usually has a pretty good reason to expect the positive outcome and also strives for it - is thinking of the non-con partner's needs and probable, but unstated, desires. So in the end, in this fantasy non-con, the perfect partner would not take "no" for an answer and everything turns out fine.

The key to the b type non-con is that this is definitely fantasy. Definitely, 100% fantasy. Non-con of the b-type in real life would be just asking for trouble. Seriously.

Which is why I can see that non-con is a big problem for a lot of people. Because if they don't buy into the fantasy of it, they come right back around to it being basically a rape scenario where the victim behaves in very unrealistic ways.

Anyway, not to beat a dead horse in your journal. I've put a lot of soul searching into this topic because the very first thing I ever posted was very much b-type non-con, bordering right on rape, and the people who read it were completely creeped out - much, much more than I expected. In my own defense, I did try to deal realistically with the aftermath.

From:

rydra_wong

So then for you, is the "non-con" label a way of signalling that this is strictly a fantasy scenario, and nothing to do with what that behaviour ("not taking no for an answer", etc.) would constitute in real life (i.e. rape)?

On that basis, I'd guess "Aliens Made Us Do It" would be a subcategory of "non con" fic, albeit with outside forces getting to do the forcing - our heroes have to have sex together, but it's okay because they end up enjoying it really, tra la la.

And I like AMUDI as much as the next person *g*. But obviously this is a completely diferent ball-game from fics which are attempting to realistically depict rape or coerced sex.

The problem is that different people seem to use the terms in very different (and often contradictory) ways when it comes to labelling fic, though.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_minxy_/

They do, at some point consent, though, in AMTDI fics. And the threat is not imminent physical violence or coersion, usually, but some sort of illness or diplomatic reprocussion. Plus, often it's still a choice, and often it's with someone they know and trust, like say, the person they've been lusting after for multiple seasons.

Yes, though, labelling.

From:

rydra_wong

They do, at some point consent, though, in AMTDI fics.

Yes, but it's not a free choice - it's "either we do this or there are really bad consequences".

And the threat is not imminent physical violence or coersion, usually, but some sort of illness or diplomatic reprocussion.

That varies - I've seen AMUDI fics where it was "either we do this or someone dies". I agree, it's generally softer, usually nobody actually has a gun to their head, but the general set-up of the fics has to be such that it's "reasonable" for them to choose to have sex (regardless of lack of desire to have sex, previously-presumed straightness, DADT/COC, etc.) rather than deal with the alternative.

So I would be willing to consider it non-con, technically speaking. Or at least very dubious or coerced consent.

But obviously it's a form with the plus of not making either of Our Heroes into the bad guy who's ignoring a "no", and one that signals very clearly through its premise that hello, we are not in serious reality-land anymore *g*. We are in the land of those mysterious aliens who have nothing better to do than make random visitors have sex.

(Which tends to go along with some pleasant fudging of the consequences - in actual reality, being forced to have public sex with your best friend would generally not likely be a recipe for either great sex or a budding relationship, after all ...)

So it's something I will read, whereas I generally don't go for other forms of fantasy non-con.

From:

muck-a-luck.livejournal.com

I think you've got exactly what I see as the difference between non-con and rape. (So sorry to

_minxy_ for my disorganized comments. I have Husband and rug rat watching the Simpsons in the background and that's too much for my poor brain at the end of a long day.) Non-con is essentially a fantasy scenario about a loving a caring person forcing another person to have sex against their will, and the forced person actually likes it and it's all good. This *could* happen in real life, I suppose, but more likely, a realistic portrayal would result in rape, and should be labeled that way.

And AMUDI is *exactly* a form of non-con. An excellent way to break the ice for a couple of straight guys who can't get a clue. :) Unless it's really nastily done, in which case it could be a form of double rape. I have a couple of stories that play with that idea, but I'm not mean enough to really, honestly do it right. In the end, I'm a fantasy kind of girl.

From:

rydra_wong

This *could* happen in real life, I suppose,

Well, I'd say not, barring outright psychosis on both sides. Because in reality, loving caring people don't ever force others to have sex against their will (and certainly don't have the telepathic ability to know with 100% certainty that the other person wants it really). And in reality, as _minxy_ said, forced sex=fear and trauma.

But, yeah, I think the point is that these sort of fics aren't reality, or intended to be - they're strictly fantasy.

Unless it's really nastily done

Have you read

paian's "Still Life With Cliche"? That's brilliantly painful because it looks realistically at what the actual emotional consequences of an AMUDI scenario might be, even with underlying UST and everyone agreeing to go through with it.

So it's an excellent illustration of how, by contrast, most AMUDI is generally purely fun fantasy.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_minxy_/

*gasp* I forgot paian! Actually, I just forgot the relevance of that fic as it's actually one of my favorite titles ever. Still Life with Cliche (http://komos.lyricalmagic.com/still.html). For the comment record.

I'm willing to concede the fantasy aspect to AMTDI and mild non-con, but it's going to take me to a bad place, I think, having treated battered women, unless it's really, seriously, established as a fantasy situation. With trust. Lot's of it. And maybe some ESP. That would be good. And talking? Maybe? Can I put in a request for talking? Oy, I'm having flashbacks now.

From:

rydra_wong

unless it's really, seriously, established as a fantasy situation.

Yup, I'm with you there. I like fantasy to be very clearly fantasy (in which case, in my head, it's not much different from a BDSM fic; it's just the author doing the play on behalf of the characters, if that makes sense), and realism to be realism.

What tends to squick me mightily is when an author is on one level, presenting what they're doing as some sort of realistic depiction of rape, and on another level, seeming to eroticize it (not necessarily consciously).

But squickage is inevitably an individual thing, I guess (insert usual caveats about people being free to write whatever they want, etc. etc. *g*)

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_minxy_/

ayup. I do wonder, though if the eroticism isn't just training from writing porn slipping into another scene? Speaking for myself, I can imagine probably more terrible things than an author can write, and what sells it for me is the reaction, not the trauma, so I don't need the trauma scene. In fact, most of my experience with trauma I wasn't at the scene of the injury, I only get the reaction, and that's enough.

But I think you've hit on something with the BDSM fics too. I really don't have a problem with those, and I usually don't have a problem with AMTDI fics either.

I do have a problem with the glorification of the victimization, though. Strong, proactive people will not sit back passively and be babied through their recovery easily. They may not be patient, they may not agree with their doctors, they may not be willing to forgive or absolve. They will very rarely break down into tears in the arms of their various extended aquaintence... eh. Probably just the odd Mary Sue character wanting to hug Daniel. Still, dunno why you gotta put him through that for a hug. Playing with fire if you ask me.

Can I borrow your caveat about people writing whatever they want? Thanks. *g*

From:

rydra_wong

Can I borrow your caveat about people writing whatever they want?

Feel free *g*.

Strong, proactive people will not sit back passively and be babied through their recovery easily.

I guess it's another fantasy kink, but just Not. My. Kink.

Tangentially: have you read

thewildmole's SG-1 Standard Disclaimer? *vbeg*

Her other rants are also well worth reading.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_minxy_/

Tangentially: have you read [info]thewildmole's SG-1 Standard Disclaimer? *vbeg*

That. Was. Brilliant. *friends thewildmole*

Especially the Daniel never being called Daniel thing. That is so bizarre to me. What on Earth does Spacemonkey actually MEAN, anyway?

From:

rydra_wong

Make sure you check out her other rants, as well as her "Recs" and "Roadkill" sections:

http://wordsmiths.net/Munchkin/rrr3.html

She does brilliant deconstructions of why particular fics work - or don't - in her opinion, and is very very funny:

The Daniel I’ve seen is a six-foot, very intelligent, well-built, opinionated, passionate, snarky kind of guy capable of standing on his own two feet. Saint Daniel, OTOH, is physically and/or emotionally fragile, his hair usually becomes longer, he’s only ever angry when it’s morally correct (otherwise he turns the other cheek), and he will be told countless times how he is loved/special/important and how we couldn’t go on without Saint Daniel, our conscience. He’s generally also the proud owner of paralyzing self-esteem issues that require being fucked through the mattress a lot.

From:

rydra_wong

I do wonder, though if the eroticism isn't just training from writing porn slipping into another scene?

Belated thought: there are a couple of fics that I think deliberately push that line, to talk about psychological damage and the twisting of desire in particular circumstances -

tafkarfanfic's Diving To Drown is one, and the other is a Farscape fic which you shouldn't read yet for spoiler reasons (and because it won't make any sense until you've got past the first three eps of season 4, but for reference, it's

rubberneck's Amok Time).

They're both brilliantly-written, but I actually found them among the most upsetting fics I've read. Which is as it should be, I think, but - not light reading. Not remotely. And it's not something I think most writers could (or should try to) bring off.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_minxy_/

Oh, you know, I've totally read 'Diving to Drown' before and it is totally disturbing. *shivers* And I think I know why to some degree: it isn't fixed by the end, there is absolutely no indication that anybody will recover and function again.

Which is perfect for the setting, and the setting is perfect for Stargate, and the AU a really interesting idea, and none of that stops the fic from being really really disturbing.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_minxy_/

Anyway, not to beat a dead horse in your journal.

Naw, it's a cool discussion, if loaded.

b) the non-con party might have consented, but hasn't quite gotten there yet emotionally, and in the end is happily and pleasantly surprised by their own positive response to the experience.

Here's a situation where I could buy this: consent is given to something, even if one partner isn't quite up to admiting that they want something. But I would still need a 'trust me', 'okay' kind of consent. It's a consent to putting themselves into their partner's hands and believing that their partner won't hurt them intentionally. There's also a tiptoeing around the distiction between emotional control and physical control of the situation. In one, even though the subject is emotionally vulnerable, there isn't any physical danger. In the other, your protagonist is out of control and being harmed and both physically and emotionally vulnerable without any faith that the sexual aggressor means well.

As rydra mentioned, AMTDI is an interesting tangent to the non-con discussion, and I've seen stories where one of our heroes ends up agreeing to a sexual encounter with someone who's intentions are unclear, and I've read situations where they either need to agree or something Very Bad will happen, but in each of these situations, though they're sometimes under duress, they generally do consent, even under mild protest. And where they are asked to have sex with each other, even when wacky chemicals are laced into their food, there is some faith that even tripping, someone they know and trust does not mean them harm. Though admittedly that one walks a line for me. I believe

saffronhouse's Moka does it really nicely, though. Deals with the reprocussions.

I will admit that your analysis of the problems with non-con is exactly my problem with non-con. In real life, someone saying no always ends the encounter. Doesn't ever matter if you think they're wrong, because taking away their control would introduce panic, if nothing else, and you would have to have so. much. trust from them to overcome panic. And if you have that much trust, why not try to talk them into it instead of forcing the issue? Because force + panic + someone refusing and losing control, is not the makings of a fantasy scenario, in my head. And I don't think I can get over that.

From:

muck-a-luck.livejournal.com

I think I'm willing to label a lot of stuff as plain-out rape, and that's why for me, non-con can be something less threatening. To me, anything that would be so forced and non-consensual that it would leave serious emotional scarring and possibly post-traumatic stress disorder - the kinds of things you are talking about - would almost by definition be rape. Trying to call it something more innocent sounding, like "non-con" is deceptive. If it's rape, people should say it up front.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_minxy_/

Interestingly, and reading back, it's not clear in the comment, but Moka is not a sexual violence, it's just a creepy invasion of personal space and mildly violent. And protested. So, that'd be hard to classify as rape, I think.

But, personal boundaries aside, something forced and non-consensual is non-con by definition, rape is just a subcategory, isn't it?

From:

muck-a-luck.livejournal.com

I'm with you on that, I think, though I still believe that the serious stuff - the stuff that would send you to a shrink - is by and large going to be rape. I mean, I could get felt up in the Metro, and it would be unpleasant, and might make me a little wary of getting in that situation again, and that would be non-con, but it doesn't strike me as the kind of thing that is really bothering you. It sounds to me that what is bothering you is forced sex, and that is rape, in my book. Including oral acts, unlike Mr. Clinton.

On the other hand, you rec'd a couple of things I haven't had a chance to read, so I could be completely off the mark.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_minxy_/

Well, eh, it's a slippery slope. I think a violation of a body in a sexual way is rape. Either being penetrated or forced to penetrate or give fellatio or touch or breach or ... you know anything invasive and sexual without consent or under threat of violence. I suppose you could draw a line about whether the contact was only on the outside of a body or whether a body was breached or whether naughty bits were directly contacted. Being kissed, being felt up, they are certainly less invasive, but they can be of a sexual nature and they can be alarming and done against ones will. I'm not sure if a person's emotional safety would be threatened by that, though, so I'd be tempted to say that a knife cut or some form of non-sexual torture would be more traumatic as a stand alone issue.

So I think for me, it's a power issue combined with an emotional/trust issue. Non-con is power taken but not willingly given, emotional manipulation without the trust of the recipient. So it's not enough that the powerful partner thinks they know best and believes they're doing the right thing, if the victim partner does not trust, does not concede the right, it's an unwelcome intimacy. And that bothers me.

*thinky* Though, for example, if it was a kiss, and unwelcome by the kissee, I wouldn't think shrink visits would be in order, but I would expect to see fallout in the friendship and possibly a serious argument or a serious discussion. Although you could still end up with someone seeing a shrink if there were larger issues involved, like massive intimacy problems or a crisis of sexuality or something.

From:

sherrold.livejournal.com

There's a wonderfully painful old X-files story by torch that may have started my belief that rape doesn't always exactly equal non-con. (Krycek isn't gay, Mulder is; Mulder thinks they're having mutually concentual sex -- but the only reason Krycek is there is that Smoking Man told him he has to be...).

Someone upstream said that non=con is usually fantasy material, and I almost agree -- not in a fluffy bunny fantasy way, but in a way that says most of the stories that skirt that edge use alien technology/drugs, or at least situations that are NEVER likely to come up in the lives of people living in non-SF circumstances.